The White Dog Research/Collective MDF Hive Mind

[Patchez]

OK. This has been brought up in an earlier thread started by Mr. T. Drunk. If we're going to explore all the glories of hooch, why not throw Moonshine into the mix.

Of the limited amount of research I've done on the interwebs there seems to be some trouble amongst the "experts" in the phrasing used by distilleries in naming and labeling their product. It seems that some of the whiskey purists object to any of the raw spirits being called whiskey due to the lack of aging in an oak barrel. see link http://www.bevx.com/spirits/white_whiskey
There is also the argument that if it's legal it's not really moonshine. These statements and arguments are too numerous and sometimes too incoherent to site here. They are easy enough to find on almost any 'shiner's forums and often a funny and enjoyable trainwreck to read. I digress however, lets stick to the topic at hand.

As the OP in this thread I will, with great wisdom and forethought, not to mention a few samples of three labels in me, settle this argument. For the purposes of this thread we will call any "illegal" or homebrew raw spirits "moonshine", as the Multiverse has ordained. **

Any raw spirits available for legal purchases at the candystore, barring your usual clear suspects, er mainstays, gin, vodka and others will be called White Dog or Raw spirits.

As a final introductory note this Time article about the subject is pretty good.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 22,00.html

** All homemade hooch will be up for discussion, including but not limited too, moonshine , rum, grappa, ouzzo, gin, vodka. Also no need to cite the source of the naughty stuff or if it was even actually in your possession. just tasting notes and comparisons to the over the counter stuff.

[peetie44]

Great OP for the white whiskey thread, Patchez.

[Patchez]

Here is my first reviews. I believe a post for each may be in order, as I have pictures as well. First up we have Wasmund's Single Malt Spirit from Copper Fox distillery in Virginia.

This is the raw spirit that is aged for their Single Malt Whiskey as yet unsampled by yours truly.



Words are going to fail me here because this stuff is a whole new realm of flavor and pure...power, I guess.
Raw is an excellent name for this stuff, as well as a pretty apt descriptive term.



It seemed proper to sample this from and old small Mason jar. Maybe it's just me but it seemed better this way.

So the first finger or so was neat and i gotta say, that may have been a mistake. 124 proof of raw spirit is not your mellow aged bourbon. This stuff has a pretty sharp start. Almost a, for lack of better term, varnish like flavor. I know this won't make anyone rush out to try this, especially the uninitiated, but those who have sampled true 'shine know this flavor. I guess a better way to say it would be a very forward, raw medicinal flavor, not unlike, but much stronger than that found in some Scotches.
After the first shock passes, it finish, well less smooth than the best of the 'shine I've had but much smoother than the worse.

The second sample was the same one fingers worth and three chunks of ice. Training wheels, yes sir, but I wanted to get a sense of any other things swirling about, and I suck at trying a splash of water as I always over water. Ice cubes are a perfect way for me to measure the right amount. Any way it really backed off the raw kick in the teeth of the sample. I actually think I could find hints of the smokiness listed on the label. Much more appealing flavor profile. It bumped up a little, the mediciney flavors mellowed but the rest of the flavors were still a struggle to pick out. More as the bottle disappears over the next few weeks. Yes weeks. This is not your everyday drinker.

If someone unable to obtain the good moonshine this would be a pretty passable way to get a sense of what all the rage is about. Over all 2 1/2 out of 5.

[Patchez]

Great OP for the white whiskey thread, Patchez.

Thank you good Sir. Cheers and as you've uttered in the past<clink>

[Patchez]

Ok, second sample was this beauty right here. Again a Wasmunds but this time the Rye Spirit.



This is, well, really Odindamned good.



Wow. No need for ice with this little beaut. This is what all 'shiners should strive for. There is the hint of the rawness and balls out power but almost hidden in the background of this one. It only seems forward in the aroma. It has that 'shine smell, but no varnish flavors. All bright and spicy. Peppery, my Shiva, this has all the makings of fantastic rye, all the flavors are there. I really need to try this in it's finished form. Smooth start to finish. Outstanding example of the breed.

There will be no ice or water portion of this review. I'll also add, hope you get me for the booze exchange cause if I can find this again it will be what I'm sending out.

I hesitate to give this a 5 out of 5 so early in the sampling process so a solid 4 out of 5.*



*caveat- up for edit after further research.

[jimmyanderson45]

There will be no ice or water portion of this review. I'll also add, hope you get me for the booze exchange cause if I can find this again it will be what I'm sending out.

[peetie44]

It has that 'shine smell, but no varnish flavors.

Attaboy, Patchez...now we're getting down to it.

[Patchez]

Buffalo Trace's White Dog came in my Holiday Booze exchange. I had a good portion of the pint when I first got it but no real memory of taste. There should be enough left over for a review later tonite.

[Cliffie S. Bockerson]

Thanks for those reviews, Patchez. I don't get the idea 'shine is for me, but you have me thinkin on that rye.

Also, just checked out the Wasmund's barrel kits. Interesting idea.

[peetie44]

DISCLAIMER: Having not tasted this whiskey, I will temper my judgement until if/when Patchez (or someone else?) reviews the actual product. But the following underscores my skepticism, which suggests that much -- if not most -- of this brave new world of white whiskey distilling and sales is focused on gouging frat-boys, hipsters and other marks who wanna believe they're walking on the wild side by drinking some "real" moonshine and will overpay for not-so-high-proof, un-aged whiskey.

"XXX Shine" (in the macho hillbilly jug!)

http://shinewhiskey.com/index.php

Another "legal moonshine" company, you'll find the words "moonshine" and "shine" sprinkled about their site. Clicking on the "Our Whiskey" heading, you can read suggestive insinuations that Philadelphia and/or Pennesylvania is where the best quality moonshine was made before and during Prohibition, and, by implication of XXX Shine recently entering the market, today as well. Below is an excerpt:
-------------------------------------------------
"The one time capitol of the United States, Philadelphia Pennsylvania is now the capitol of moonshine consumption * Not only that, Philadelphia has begun crafting its very own! Not since the days before Prohibition was 'legal' moonshine distilled in these parts. Might that old pipeline of contraband hooch from Virginia (I-95N) become obsolete within a few days of the release of XXX SHINE Whiskey?"

"It's often thought, incorrectly, that Virginia and North Carolina made all the moonshine during Prohibition. Yes, those states did and, to some extent, still do provide a large volume of the spirit sold within our borders. But if your quest during Prohibition was quality over quantity, then only Pennsylvania would fit the bill."

* Chasing The White Dog, by Max Watman
-----------------------------------------------------
Under the same "Our Whiskey" heading, you'll also see that they claim "no bullshit" and "high proof"...except that nowhere on their site, other than by squinting at the jug on their home page (or by clicking on the links to retailers under the "Purchase" heading), can you glean any factual info on the "high proof" of this "moonshine." So...after squinting at the jug...WOW!...how does a whopping 88.8 proof (44.4% abv) tickle your "high proof" fancy?

Holding true to their "no bullshit" philosophy and practice, this company attests to receiving critical acclaim from the likes of The Wall Street Journal, Time Magazine, Oprah Magazine, GQ and others. But -- surprise! surprise! -- they offer no direct quotes from, links and/or any article date/issue directions to, such acclamations. Under the "News" heading, they DO offer links to reviews in the Philly Inquirer and Philly City Paper...however, clicking on either of these links sends you to -- oopsy-daisy -- a NOT FOUND page. No bullshit, indeed.

Finally, of course, they have "gear" for sale (with it's own menu heading, natch)...a logo-emblazoned gangsta/biker-style bandana and a be-logoed 2oz shot glass...seductively posed with a hairy armed, fully tatted-out manly-man holding a glass of the house hooch. Jack D*aniels would be SO proud.

The Penn Liquor Control Board offers this libation for $25/750ml

"Oh, Jason...it's SO exciting to be drinking REAL Philadelphia moonshine with you. So, ur-uh...would you like to come back to my dorm room?"

[Patchez]

Actually peetie I sent a bottle of that to my mark for the Holiday booze exchange. I saw it for the first time ever on the shelf and since it was local snagged it and sent it. Untasted and untested. I feel ashamed now. I will pick up a bottle and see if it's "no bullshit" or more of the "same bullshit".

[Patchez]

Next sample was the White Dog I got from the Holiday booze exchange.



This is close to the real deal and close to the good real deal. It sits lower on the over all proof at 125 than Moonshine, but let's face it, none of the distillers are going to be selling this stuff at barrel proof. So for the White Dog group it sits about as low as I'd like to see. This mash bill has corn, rye and barley. Though I couldn't find any info on it on Trace's website some of the other articles I'd been reading mention it as the unaged BT spirit that ends up as their bourbon. Tasting it I believe it. It comes on raw and sharp but finishes smoothly with just a slight sweetness lingering as it warms, not burns it's way down your throat into your belly. This could sustain any mountain man through a cold winter, and will definitely be packed for any hunting trips or if I get the chance at any ice fishing trips. No need for ice or water mellowing with this one.

I'll have to put this at a 3 1/2 out of 5. Good solid sample of the breed, most important a smooth sample of breed.

Side note, this is how I got my booze package. Sort of an Ebony & Ivory, a Stevie Wonder & Sir Paul McCartney, a virtual boozy racial harmony of hooch. I loved it.

[peetie44]

Actually peetie I sent a bottle of that to my mark for the Holiday booze exchange. I saw it for the first time ever on the shelf and since it was local snagged it and sent it. Untasted and untested. I feel ashamed now. I will pick up a bottle and see if it's "no bullshit" or more of the "same bullshit".

Patchez...I appreciate you not taking my post the wrong way, and for your indulgence...however, this "White Whiskey" scene is so full of obvious commercial spam/scam that it's mind boggling unreal.

Perhaps this thread needs a proof/abv cut-off point (say, @110 proof?), if only to separate serious attempts at legal white whiskey from marketed-to-hipsters swill. If we're being offered a supposed high-test alternative to 151 rum, then I'm in. But if we should have to wade through less than 100 proof, overpriced wannabes, then what's the point? A drinker might as well go buy a bottle of Beam for $15 and forget about the fake moonshine experience.

[Mr Boozificator]

I love this thread.
If I can put my hands on homemade Calva or any kind of Blanche, I'll report here.

[Patchez]

Actually peetie I sent a bottle of that to my mark for the Holiday booze exchange. I saw it for the first time ever on the shelf and since it was local snagged it and sent it. Untasted and untested. I feel ashamed now. I will pick up a bottle and see if it's "no bullshit" or more of the "same bullshit".

Patchez...I appreciate you not taking my post the wrong way, and for your indulgence...however, this "White Whiskey" scene is so full of obvious commercial spam/scam that it's mind boggling unreal.

Perhaps this thread needs a proof/abv cut-off point (say, @110 proof?), if only to separate serious attempts at legal white whiskey from marketed-to-hipsters swill. If we're being offered a supposed high-test alternative to 151 rum, then I'm in. But if we should have to wade through less than 100 proof, overpriced wannabes, then what's the point? A drinker might as well go buy a bottle of Beam for $15 and forget about the fake moonshine experience.

I concur with the 100 proof basement for it. Having said that I took a quick peak at Popcorn Sutton's Tennessee White Whiskey. What I found was disturbing. Popcorn will get these money grubbing pricks back. When I heard they where going to put out his 'Shine legally, my first thought was, Christ, they corporate pigs are going to whore out Popcorn's name to sell shitty wannabe hooch.

Looking at the website, http://www.popcornsuttonswhiskey.com/, it comes in at 93 proof. Just under the threshold, and with some of the news stories on the page it looks over run with Nashville country music industry hipster twatbags.

Post by Mr Boozificator » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:04 am
I love this thread.
If I can put my hands on homemade Calva or any kind of Blanche, I'll report here.

Feel free to post up any findings of the "real 'Shine" in all it's forms. The stuff is hard to come by here on a regular basis but as it come to hand, and mouth, I will do my best to review.

If my research is correct you will be trying to score, homemade apple and white brandies.

Have you ever tried the Italian grappa? It seems to be the same sort of beast. http://www.lifeinitaly.com/wines/grappa.asp